Which Loyalist Chapters Were Created Using Traitor Geneseed? | Warhammer 40k Lore (2025)

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There is one more hint that the Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors. There is a story where an inquisitor uncovered some secret about their founding and geneseed, but rather than reveal it (as she determined the chapter was 100% loyal) instead sent this info to their chapter master and their 1st company captain. The two Silver Skulls were greatly disturbed by this information, though stating the information would "both condemn and exonerate" their chapter. Thus it would make sense as the condemn part would be "traitor geneseed", but also would be exonerated because they are basically descended from members of a traitor legion who remained loyal and due to being considered honorary Ultramarines during the heresy, formed their own chapter afterwarss
Which checks out with the theory that they have been Iron Warriors the entire time and Guilliman just claimed they were Ultramarines to cover for them., likely making sure future generations of the chapter wouldn't even know the truth to prevent it from getting out.

I had the idea of a chapter that's listed as Ultramarine stock but are hinted at having Angron geneseed. Instead of bloodthirsty world eaters, as children of his true self, theyre accomplished empaths, medics and speakers, adept at rallying troops and inspiring hope, that find battles everyone thinks lost to either turn the tide or get as many civilians out as possible.

I think the Soul Drinkers were actually either 2ed or 11th legion, since we know that the Fists (along with the Ultramarines) absorbed the remnants of those legions into their own. Since everyone's memories of this were wiped, it would then make sense why everyone was 100% certain they were fists until they checked their geneseed

So glad you mentioned the Blood Ravens as they became canon. Love how people theorised their connection to the Thousand Sons, then that too became canon. I love the fandom

I hope we get to see how Lion "Space Tywin Lannister" El'Jonson react to the Primaris Space Marines for the Dark Angels and their successor chapters.

I think Bellisarius Cawl said it best through the Cawl inferior in Dark Imperium to Guilliman, "The warriors were not at fault, the science was not at fault, the primarchs were. Chapters from your lineage have fallen to chaos and we do not censure them."

You have to wonder if the Sons of the Phoenix are some sort of elaborate double bluff from Cawl. Like, he made it so blatantly obvious that someone's gonna call him out but, after testing the geneseed, it turns out they are indeed genuine sons of Dorn. Meanwhile every other, less obvious Primaris chapter is riddled with traitor geneseed but everyone's too embarrassed to call him out a second time!

The Silver Skulls also have a heavy Greek influence, with the idea of basing battle plans on oracle's predictions being very much a thing in ancient Greece, which is obviously a strong narrative link to Pertarabo's home world.

Would be interesting if we could get a book of one of the traitor geneseed chapters going up against their daemon primarch and their legion. The entire time having a strange sense during the campaign, but keep it subtle so it’s ‘confirmed’ but not really.

I know very little about the shark boys but the possibility of them having a bit of Konrad in them makes me very happy, especially considering the Night Lords have effectively disbanded.

Man, imagine if Clonegrim became the Primarch of the Sons of the Phoenix chapter

Roboute Guilliman did warn Belisarius Cawl to not use the Traitor Legion geneseed for the Primaris Space Marine program.
Cawl used them anyway.

My pet theory was also that the Minotaurs came from Iron Warriors stock. I think the brutal efficiency is one thing, but the fact they're really chill with mechanizing a large part of their chapter/use a lot of cybernetics made me think of Perty's whole thing about liking to use robots. Also found it funny because his home world is Olympia, so Minotaurs....

there is also some lore around the lost primarch's legions being partially absorbed into other legions during the great crusade, this could be an explanation for supposed ultramarine/imperial fist successors not matching geneseed

Cheers mate, now that the Lion no longer sleeps tonight, could you cover what the Imperium would look like if he was the one who woke up instead of Guilliman? Also the other primarchs?

I would love to see a video on the living saints and how they died

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans current situation would be pretty cool ngl

The Silver Skulls also have the greatest ship name I've heard yet; 'The Manifest Destiny'

The best Soul Drinker theory I'd heard was that they were an Alpha Legion successor due to their relic the Soulspear.
Apparently Dorn gave it to them upon their founding and its gene locked to a specific gene seed (assumed to be Dorn) and so only worked for particular marines.
Now we know 2 things for sure- One, Soul Drinkers were not an Imperial Fist Successor and two, after the battle of Pluto Dorn found himself in possession of a relic spear after 'liberating' Alpharius of it.

I heard once a theory that the Astral Claws were Luna Wolf successors, but the only thing pointing towards that, as far as I can see, is that their chaptermaster was very charismatic.

I wonder what would be the other primarchs responses to Guliman's situation.

I'm actually a huge fan of The Sons of The Pheonix. They're literally just Loyal Emperor's Children and I'm there for it!

regarding Blood Ravens, actually only Captain Thule knows some very controversial secrets of that chapter when he discovered it on Planet Kronus during the Dark Crusade campaign. However, he destroyed those secrets so no one else knows about them.

If I may add another potential traitor-descendant chapter : the Red Scorpions.
They could be from the Word Bearers, showcasing extreme devotion to the Imperial Faith and the Codex.
Another possibility is that they are of Emperor's Children's lineage. It makes a bit more sense, especially considering their obsession for genetic purity, the fact that they field a great number of Apothecaries, and also their pride, notably with a clear disdain for camouflage.

The carcharodons are my favourite successor chapter currently building a small carcharon army but im not confident in my skills to build a better tyberos yet so i just bought the forge world one 😆

It's more or less confirmed that the Storm Wardens from the FFG rpg are World Eater successors. If I remember the developer correctly they were a reference to the loyalist World Eaters of the Dornian Heresy.

This video got me hype for the idea that the Sons of the Phoenix are a setup for Clonegrim to have a proper army behind him when he gets out of his pokeball

You should make a sharrowkyn video, man is the reason the traitors didn’t get their hands on the genetic templates of the primarchs

Imagine the stories we could've gotten If the imperium allowed loyalist members of traitor legions to have their own chapters under the names of the pre primarch legions like the luna wolves, dusk raiders, war hounds etc

I’m shocked you didn’t mention the Storm Wardens at all, who are one of the most agreed upon Chapters to be of Traitor Geneseed.
Heck, a large number of their Veterans from centuries/millennias ago sealed themselves away deep inside their Fortress Monastery to both preserve the knowledge & to not damn the rest of the Chapter who were unaware of it.
As for what legion their geneseed came from, they’re heavily implied to be World Eaters due to their gladiator culture & preference for melee.

Missed a few, such as:
Red Hunters__Alpha Legion
Red Scorpions__Emperors Children
And
Exorcists__Word Bearers

A interesting idea, a Night Lord successor Chapter that's similar to the old school Night Lords as suggested in yesterday's video … _ethical_

Correct me if I'm wrong but I vaguely remember someone saying the executioners chapter were either loyalist world eaters but labeled imperial fists or just what loyalist world eaters would be like. I know Fafnir Rann is the first high executioner and that the wiki states they are dissimilar to imperial fists and other space marines call them gore-splattered headhunters.

i'd love some Luna Wolves style chapter. if only because primaris marines with some close quarter doctrines and bayonets on their bolt guns sounds awesome

Thank you for talking about my chapter the Sons of the Phoenix. They never get mentioned as there really isn’t any info. Still it’s nice to see my boys made the list.

Majorkill,
Please do a video on Ork Life and culture outside battles! I don’t think there is anyone more perfect to cover this than you. Like what is life day to day for an ork on a planet controlled by them? Do they build temporary societies, where do they eat, sleep, and do they just do crazy things like perform Aztec style soccer games where the losers are curb stomped at the end 😂

The blood ravens may well be there remnants of the Thousand sons fleet, The Raven. Sent away by Magnus just before the fall of their homeworld. Also explains why they are a fleet based chapter.
They were snuck back into the imperium, were then redeemed or forgiven by Terra and the Inquisition somehow ? But hey mysteries are fun right 😅

I think the Minotaurs are actually created by world eater geneseed as pre brain-nails world eaters did have a very spartan aesthetic plus they had the most loyal memebrs when the legion went to chaos showing how extreme their loyalty to the Imperium was (as even with brain nails, being censored and their primarch turning most still chose the Imperium).
Also I've always thought the Lamentors might be a chimeric geneseed of Blood Angel and Luna Wolf geneseed. So my thought goes the mechanicus tried to "cure" the red thirst by mixing geneseed and chose the Luna Wolves because of the legions closeness before the fall, and their bad luck comes because both the Emperor and the Chaos Gods hate Horus so much that both sides are cursing any with Horus's geneseed to bad luck and shit times.

I could imagine a World Eaters gene seed based chapter being claimed as an alleged successor chapter of Space Wolves and the Lunar Wolves being Ultra Marines.

I kinda like theory that Blood Ravens are mix between Thousands Sons and Ultramarines geneseed. As you can always see in their game conflict between mundane humane space marine vs psyker-mage space marine. To be honest that mystery should be left untouched, it is main reason why they are interesting.

I've heard a theory that the blood ravens are descended from word bearers which can explain why they don't have the tzeentch curses in their geneseed and still have lots of psykers

You'd think the Thousand Sons would be very interested in the Blood Ravens' geneseed as it could help them understand how to reverse the Rubric.

This is like the fourth video this week I've seen within 10 minutes of it being uploaded, it's a good week

A more likely approach to the Blood Ravens Geneseed is to say that they have multiple legions Geneseed, like Imperial Fist and Thousand Sons would explain their lack of mutations and obsession with knowledge. Another theory I have is that they're the sons of the 2/11 Primarch(s). Also when did you get started on Blood Ravens lore? That "Physic Chapter Master" was Azaryia (I don't know how to spell his heretical name) Vidya (Don't know how to spell his last name either). He turned out to be super heretical, killed a lot of people, Exterminatus'ed Typhon Primaris, and became a Daemon Prince. Obviously he was banished, but this time instead of the 1st company captain(Captain Diomedes who was a puppet to the heretical Chief Librarian) taking charge, it was Gabriel Angelos of the Third Company who took command.

Interesting premise for a video. Thanks for explaining the nuances.

So for the Blood Ravens, the Emperor offered Magnus a new Legion under his command, and I suspect the Blood Ravens are created from that new marine geneseed, or plans for it, which is why it's so stable despite being an experiment.

Space marines: “I would follow you to hell and back”
Traitor primarchs: “who told you we’re coming back

Really feel like we need a video about the Severan Dominate at this point!!!

The sons of omegon are suspected to be loyalist alpha legionares, given there name but its just vaguely hinted at. Meanwhile there are probably plenty of chapters that derive from the two lost legions, or at l'East one of the two

Great way to wake up. Fuck yeah bro.

About the Sons of Antaeus, they may be Iron Warrior successors as well. Read the following excerpt from Deliverance Lost:
‘Take this one, sample *four,* as an indicator,’ said the genetor majoris. ‘We have managed to identify at least six unique sub-complexes and protein strands geared towards physical durability, above and beyond that found in the others. In the same sample, there is a dearth of certain enhanced genes that, in our estimation, boost the cytoarchetectonic structure responsible for the development of nociceptors and proprioceptory function.'

Hell yeah, couldn't have put it any better.

Yeah,for me Blood Ravens are totally "loyalist Thosuend Sons"

One clue that a Chapter is descended from a traitor legion is that, unlike most Chapters, they worship the Emperor as a god. (It's almost as if they're compensating for something…) Look through the lore, and see how many Chapters of "unknown lineage" worship the Emperor as a god. From the Badab War you have three: Red Scorpions, Star Phantoms, and Fire Hawks.

I got two honorable mentions of chapters that were alleged to have traitor gene-seed.
First is the Red Scorpions. An almost forgettable chapter if Forge World did not have a hard-on for them. The Red Scorpions have a thing for purity, and their squads are even led by Apothecaries so their gene-seed can be properly extracted should a Marine fall in battle. Trying to analyze a sample of their gene-seed is also a problem, cause the Red Scorpions insist they answer only to the Emperor. Their combat doctrine also heavily implies they are descendants of Fulgrim, but again, we will never know.
The other is the Storm Wardens, who are created by Fantasy Flight Games for their Deathwatch tabletop game. This one is more of a stretch, since the Storm Wardens have an emphasis on tech, given they have more Techmarines under their charge. However, given the Gaelic influences of the chapter (makes sense, the chapter is based on Scottish highlanders), their emphasis on martial honor and singles combat, the implication is that the Primarch of the Storm Wardens may be Angron. The Celts were enslaved to be gladiators during Roman times (matching Angron's own backstory), the Storm Wardens color scheme fits the pre-Heresy World Eaters (blue and white), and their "overwhelming force" doctrine matches the pre-Heresy War Hounds. I don't know, it's sketchy, but I like the idea of loyalist World Eaters and what could have been if Angron was not messed up from the get-go.

Talk about Traitor Marines from Loyalist legions.
What kind of person do you have to be to not only betray your dad but also the Emperor?

That cheeky ass grin after the manscaped sponsor bit. You knew exactly what you were doing. well done

Shame that the Blood Magpies are not long lost relatives of Trazyn the Infinite. Could of had you singing your Pokémon song again.

Hey Majorkill, i have an idea for a video!
How would each Primarch fared if they had been chosen as the warmaster instead of Horus?

This is a great video. Loyalists with traitor genes has fascinated me for a while. Plus I have plans to create my own marine chapter with similar origins some day, I just haven't made it happen yet. Thanks!

Majorkill can you do a video on the planets of the Sol System in 40k?

I miss the Magpies...Wonder if they'll get another cameo in Space Marine 2.

Majorkill - "Is it Heresy?" Cawl "not if the Big E told me to do it"

The charcharadons seem to just be the Terran born raven guard, who purposefully give themselves the sable brand

Firehawks are loyalists world eater successors change my mind

The only nerd-youtube who can literally model on the side

Mate I won't let such slander against the Soul Drinkers stand. Only a true son of Dorn could open that Warp gate, and Sharpedon walked through it like a boss

Angron: NO ONE CAN DEFEAT ME!
Guilliman: I know, but he can.
Lion El Johnson: (does dramatic WWE entrance)
Angron: Mommy!

This makes the Silver Skulls and Sons of the Phoenix far less subtle ngl

cawl has the ability to shut down every question of "is this heresy?" with a simple answer of "I fucking made that" *points at space marine statue*

The original Minotaur chapter were originally berserkers in the 32M before disappearing and reappearing in the 41M with an entirely different battle doctrine. They may have been originally Loyalist World Eaters but were unreliable and so the high lords switched to iron warriors geneseed.

I am starting to be convinced that then blood ravens were the geneseed that was to replace the thousand sons geneseed. Didn't the emperor say he would give Magnus a new legion if he gets rid of his thousand sons?

I picked the Sons of the Phoenix for my chapter because I liked the Imperial Fists and their color scheme was cool as fuck. Now I know who they really are and that's even cooler!

Lion model looks badass, dont like just how much they aged him though

God Raven Guard Legion reunions have to be super awkward between the Classics, Shark men, Undead r@pist from the Ghoul Stars, and adopted Emperor's Children.
Majorkill can we get a Major Mini for Commissar Yarrick pls

Cawl creating a Primaris Chapter using Luna Wolves geneseed would be interesting to see in lore.

Even though this comment might get lost in the mix, just wanna jump in real quick and say you’re a major reason why I’m such a Warhammer addict now. You, Weshammer, and Baldemort have me hook line and sinker. Started listening to Warhammer novels, and I’m at the brink of wanting to paint miniatures even though I have never touched a paint brush. Thankfully my fiancé is an art teacher. Thank you for what you do and keep pumping that Warhammer goodness into my veins 😊

A idea ik you won't see this but by the small chance you do could you do top 10 near primarch tier space marines

Personally, my headcannon is that the magpies are actually chimaeric, a 50/50 fusion (or maybe 70-30 son-angel, given the seeming dominance of TS traits) of thousand sons and blood angels, resulting in them having the flaws of neither chapter, while retaining a strong, but not universal psykic affinit, due to the fact that the blood angels were also more than averagely psykic.
In my head, this was an experiment conducted in extreme secrecy by magnus and sanguinius themselves shortly before the heresy. For whatever reason, Sanguinius was the one who had access to the few successful chimaeric marines at the outbreak of the heresy, and he eventually told Big E about them during the siege of terra, who in turn passed the knowledge on to malcador and thus the fledgeling inquisition.
Which would be why the blood ravens have such a consistent degree of super-high level backing.

it is worth noting that the traits expressed by the Carcharadons (pale skin, black eyes) are also traits of the Raven guard, and several other traits they have (the specific organs that fail to develop, the Ash blindness, the growing of scales as they get older) are also traits of the Raven Guard geneseed. Tyberios also tested as raven guard when petitioning for his chapter to join the badab war. combined with some of the ranks and titles within the chapter matchign that of the pre-corax XIX legion, it seems likely that they are mostly Raven Guard, not nightlords.
the claims to the contrary came from, respectively.. a Demon that was trying to antagonize a nightlords sorcerer, and an Ashen claw chapter leader who was specifically called out prior to the reader meeting him as using lies and insults to antagonize the Caracharadon envoys in order to get an upper hand in negotiations. so on one hand you have multiple official sources saying raven guard.. and two explicitly untrustworthy sources saying otherwise..

I remember reading a lot about Soul Drinkers. Easily one of my favourite chapters

The Soul Drinkers are a Blood Angels successor chapter, if you wish for elaboration, look at the Chalice on their banner

I have a small squad of Sons of the Phoenix!, but Ima give them EC iconography
Im really really happy you mentioned them because in my Deathwatch army, I have loyal traitors in a squad

5:42 Whoa they literally didn't even attempt to disguise them of having Word Bearer geneseed

If you made a chapter based off the world eaters.
Would you make them a close combat based army.
Or maybe something that plays off the fact that Angron was a empath before the nails were put in.
He would use his abilities to ease the suffering of others so maybe his sons would have turned out like salamanders and look after people?
Obviously after the nails, he and his sons turned into psychopaths so I guess we'll never know how they would have turned out under better circumstances.

Oh, the Silver Skulls are real? I thought they were an imaginary chapter people came up with to explain certain Necrons saving people by accident. *cough* Trazyn *cough*

Spooky thing I've found. My favourite boys are the Carcharadons, so I read into them. Fun thing. They have a surprising amount of world eater stuff in their lists. They behave like front line night lords, they have naming schemes from raven guard and world eaters. My boys might actually be sons of Angron, and I'm not sure how I feel about that

my homebrewed Space Marine chapters are loyalists who use traitor geenseed.
The Viridian Dukes, The Avenger's psithes, Eternity Inculpators, red hounds, The Zeta Disciples, Bismuth Soldiers, The Armoured Saints, Space hyenas, and Sigma Slayers. They use Night lords, Alpha Legion, Emperor's children, Lunar Wolves, 1000 Sons, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, World Eaters, and Death Guard gene seed respectively. With the only 1 of them turning on the imperium being The Armoured Saints.

In the now dubiously-canon Dark Imperium Trilogy, the Cawl Inferior HEAVILY implies that Cawl has created at least one full-fledged Primaris Chapter from each of the Traitor legions' gene seed, as well as from the gene-seed of the Lost Primarchs. Upon asking Guilliman's permission to mass produce Traitor and Lost Legion Primaris successors, the device argues with Guilliman's refusal by pointing out that all of the testing of Traitor Legion derived chapters has shown no problems, that the fault was with the Primarchs, not the gene seed. The implication being that to have successfully TESTED Traitor Legion and Lost Legion Primaris Chapters, he had to actually create them first.
It's known that there are a number of mysterious Primaris chapters that answer only to Cawl himself. My guess would be that a number of these are the Lost and Traitor derived chapters that Cawl referred to "testing" in his argument with Guilliman.

When i feel stress i turn to you thanks for the vids man

The Lion when a Dark Angels sucsessor chapter's members all looks like Alpharius/Omegon: 🤔
Belisarus Cawl:😅

The "corrupted by Nurgle" thing with the Minotaurs was revealed in the 2nd Watchers of the Throne book as an excuse to assemble the entire Chapter on Terra in time for the High Lord coup.

My pet peeve is Majorkill pronouncing charcharodon "car cha ro don" when it should be "car kuh ro don"

The idea of loyalist marines from fallen chapters makes as much sense as loyalists falling.
Two way street.

Thank you for including the Souldrinkers. They're my favourite chapter.

Oh boy have I been waiting a long time for this video!

i can imagine cawl making loyalist world eaters and going “hah, just to fuck with the guilliman, ima equip every single one of these fuckers with sarum pattern helmets and some heresy era world eaters cadre weapons.”

Any reason to talk about my favorite magpie's is a good reason.

See now that's an interesting tac to take old chap. Interesting theme to explore I mean. Like it. I liked the way Uzas out of Night Lords trilogy used to eat his enemies gene seed. And that counter taunt he made to that Ultramarine successor thin blooded chapter. I forget the name now. Anyways he telt this pr1ck his skull would be used by his artificers as a pot for nightsoil. Awesome counter challenge. Cheers Majorkill